In The Patriarchy of Things, Rebekka Endler draws attention to male dominance in design and traces this dominance in the simplest objects we use in our daily life, in public spaces, and in the treatment methods in medicine. The examples she gives are really remarkable because from trouser pockets to the design of transportation vehicles; It strikingly reveals that everything we come into contact with in our lives, from the toilet line waiting for women to computer games, is designed to adapt to the male body.
First of all, how do you feel lately, what’s on your agenda?
I was fortunate enough to come to Istanbul for an artist residency at Tarabya, so that’s where I’ve been working and living for the past four months. It’s been a very special and cherished time for me, because I got here feeling exhausted and burned out, after touring around with my book for the past 18 months, so the residency allowed me to recharge my batteries and to develop new creative ideas.
Actually, I want to talk about the story of the writing of this book. When I read Patriarchy of Things, I thought that the fact that everything around us was so middle-class, Western, white male made and structured made you feel constrained and framed, and you must have felt the urge to act.
Ultimately, realizing that from medical systems to treatment methods, from the chair we sit in to the temperature of the room we are in, it is structured only for a certain type of body; quite disturbing. So, did your interest in the patriarchy of things come from your personal experiences?
Quite honestly, neither as a journalist, nor during my studies of sociology and political science did I ever really draw a connection between my personal experiences of discomfort and insecurity interacting with the world and patriarchy as an underlying structure.
I always assumed something was wrong with me, when for example I couldn’t maneuver these electric cargo bikes we have in my hometown of Cologne, because I’m just “too small and too weak”. Or standing in a long line to access a public toilet after the movies or during a concert.
My mind immediately went into a mode of thinking “sure, it’s our own fault, we need so much longer”. A lot of things around me I didn’t even notice as something “unfitting” anymore, because they were just “normal”. So in a lot of ways, researching and writing this book was re-questioning my environment and realizing how much patriarchal power the word “normal” holds in every single area of our lives.
It’s hard not to agree with you on this one. I also think that universal concepts such as “human”, “normal”, “ideal” go hand in hand with patriarchy. I think that these concepts appease what is acceptable, by dissolving the rest.
Well, since we have transformed into capitalist consumption-centered societies, many brands, cosmetics, clothes, etc., aimed at women’s attention. being produced.
In addition, specific products and brands are produced that will attract the attention of marginalized individuals and groups, women wearing hijab and mothers. In this case, what do you think about the increasing number of alternatives?
You’re right, especially the internet, for all its negatives, clearly has had a democratizing effect on designs. With a good idea, you can get crowd-funding and also easy direct distribution, without having to go through the gate-keeping of investment banks and/or distributors, such as warehouses.
Still, I am actually baffled by the amount of things and designs that are still missing, although there is clearly a market for it. If I had the slightest interest in being an entrepreneur, there are plenty of ways to make money with proper designs, because women and other marginalized people not only have the buying power but are also starting to demand better, safer products. Unfortunately I’m not an entrepreneur, so I have to make money with books, instead.
Now, after these problematics, I would like to ask some solution-centered questions. What do you think is the way to create alternative spaces in this order that is already stereotyped and designed for white men? To what extent does the reduction of the item contribute to the development in this context?
Because as things multiply and capitalism develops, patriarchy seems to surround us more. What if reducing stuff and transforming existing items went hand in hand for the sake of getting rid of patriarchy?
I think the end of patriarchy and capitalism definitely go hand in hand and are our only option, not only as a feminist, but also as a person aware of the climate catastrophe we’re in the midst of. Eco-justice, for example should be a priority of feminist fights. So the question here should be how do we do this by taking responsibility for ending these systems of oppression.
Individually, you’re right, reducing consumption and consuming more consciously is great, a lot of theorists see a feminist practice in it, but consumption is also very much tied to class and access to society. Basically, I have no problem kicking up and demanding for private planes to be abolished, but it’s really not my place, as a privileged middle class white woman, to tell others to stop buying fast fashion, for example.
Fashionable clothing is an essential part of the way we build our identities and access to conscious, sustainable clothing is really expensive. I might have access to sustainable fashion, others don’t. We need to shift our focus on political, structural answers by the people in power, instead of blaming individuals for a consumption behavior, we were trained all our lives to think of as desirable.
Your last sentence was really accurate for understanding the idea that the system creates its own receivers. Finally, I would like to ask an experience-oriented question. In the context of the city, what can you say about Istanbul, where you have lived for a while, by giving examples from your personal experiences?
How patriarchal is Istanbul for you when you direct the point of view in your book to this city? And what was the thing/item that you felt the most lacking in terms of inclusiveness and equality in Istanbul?
I’ve only been here for four months now, so I’m by no means an expert for this huge, messy, delightful city! I am also still figuring things out, like public spaces for example, it’s not like I can simply go and ask people “Hey, what’s your relationship with public space?”.
Istanbul is full of design that has grown over several hundreds of years, much of which would fall under my definition of patriarchal design, because it suits mostly cis men, adults without any physical disabilities, or children best.
The first time I was here, my kid was five months old and I couldn’t find places to change diapers, to breast-feed and going outside with a stroller was a pain in the ass. Still, going back to your question from before, the transformation has to start within the place, with step by step alterations and a shift of focus.
I went to visit the offices of Superpool here in Istanbul and was very impressed with the work they are doing, making the city more accessible and safer and generally more fun for people.
Thank you very much for your interest, effort and most importantly your sincerity during the interview process. Hearing your answers was stimulating and a pleasure for us.
Thank you very much and good luck for your new site Arsperas!